Curse

Tenebrae · Feb 20, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Trust me, if there were a way for WoW players to solo the most difficult raid in the game, there would without a doubt be thousands of people doing it within a week, and then a week after that, Blizzard would hurry up and fix it (since it would likely be a bug causing it).

In GW? The same thing happens, except ANet takes 2 years to somewhat, kinda fix the problem.

Well , kinda happens , ppl who you pay money to care , cares .

Xsiriss · Feb 20, 2010, 08:58 PM // 20:58

My earlier general criticisms aside, these 'buffs' are largely reworkings of the skill that make them more versatile (spirit rift for example). Looking at the necro skills, they need to slap some damage on their so we don't have to go, 'uh this is a buff right?'. As mentioned before, bleeding is not worth sacing 12% of your health for when your Jagged Horror is pumping it out for you as you discord their asses.

Again, GET YOUR DAMAGE ON,for god sake it's pve and it's need much more than various new ways of adding cracked armour or that random stuff.

tealspikes · Feb 20, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabineh Deathbringer

The thing I've noticed about the Guild Wars community is that A-Net can't stop them. I remember when good old Shield of Judgement was great for farming trolls in Prophecies. Now? We've got tons of people that are "Not too Shabby" and rich as hell because of simple skills. People that constantly do FoWSC and lots of people with Savior of (faction).

I hope A-Net realizes that with in time, nearly every title that seems very time consuming with be as easy as they are now. That's what I love about this community - people have such creativity and intelligence. You won't find that in other MMORPG's, so that's something to be proud of.

Only a handful of people are creative and intelligent. The rest just know how to copy/paste off the wiki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flapjack

Well that certainly sounds reasonable. But perhaps before we spend much time working on effective ways to clear elite areas someone could explain what is "acceptable"?

Is there a certain length of time you would like us to stay above and/or certain classes that must be included or the method would be deemed unacceptable?

I'm only being slightly sarcastic actually. It would be nice to know what the TK thinks is appropriate so that if I happen to play outside the lines of what is "acceptable" in pve clears (lol) I'll try and keep it to myself and not let it get out and become a nerf target.

It's not exactly black & white as to what's acceptable and whats not. I'm guessing by Regina's comments on SF and 600, that builds that allow people to consistently clear areas with only a fraction of a full party is one example of whats not acceptable.

Orry · Feb 20, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Only a handful of people are creative and intelligent. The rest just know how to copy/paste off the wiki.

It's not exactly black & white as to what's acceptable and whats not. I'm guessing by Regina's comments on SF and 600, that builds that allow people to consistently clear areas with only a fraction of a full party is one example of whats not acceptable.

And the fact that they are talking about Obsidian Flesh makes it seem like near-invincibility is unacceptible.

Ugh · Feb 20, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

if TK (even not openly as TK but just as a 'guru member') created a thread to discuss what needs the biggest buffs/nerfs/changes and why and monitored it very well, taking it into consideration and following at least some of the playerbase requests, it might have nice effects.

That would just be filled with people ranting about their pet classes. And, I think the community has been pretty vocal about what needs to be fixed. Just from reading through this thread, I've gathered that these seem to be the most problematic:

1. Dervishes
2. Mesmers
3. Rangers
4. Eles (can't act like eles)
5. Paragons (only have one build)

Quote:

Originally Posted by furpigs

Did I miss the actual wording to the shadow form nerf? Or was it not posted?

And what is the guess for it?

It wasn't posted.

And I'm hoping for a functionallity change.

Jk)Phoenix · Feb 20, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

hope at least they will fix a bit also drop rate for rare skinned weapons... since will took now to make a run "anywhere" almost triple of the time of before...

and hope they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin low down the dmg of bosses with normal attacks... it's unbelievable that a monk boss in HM wanding me hit for 150-200 dmg... wtf!

Chthon · Feb 20, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Using Offhand or Dual Attacks out of chain will be the same as a "fail", without the instant cast. They will recharge instantly, but won't count as being activated. They'll still cost energy tough.

Thus, you can simply use exhausting assault on any target (test it in temple if you don't believe me), and spam it as much as you want. Right now, tough, there isn't any known use to it, as it doesn't trigger on anything. (Not even Illusionary Weaponry)

With this update, as noted on wiki, it will trigger on demonic flesh, and result in 1 trigger of the skill per Exhausting Assault.

Same for blinding power. (It also recharges instantly)

1. Can you point me to this note on the wiki? I'm a little unclear on how anyone is posting with certainty what an unreleased skill is going to count as "use a skill."

2. If that is the case, it's a bug problem, not a balance problem. (Though the new Demonic Flesh sounds like it may be OP anyway...) Failed skills should not count as "used." Problem solved.

Cuilan · Feb 20, 2010, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Guild Wars is a team game, as hinted by the name, NOT a solo/2 man game.

I still dislike you, but you are correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProX AcciaiO

this balance it's not right for new players

You may not have went into any detail, but there is some truth to that. Anet appears to have changed their goal. It was to balance for players who are new, casual, and on 'n off players along with many of the advanced players found here and in game. Basically put consideration of different play styles. While the few greatly over-powered skills are being changed, this update has a lot wrong.

This update is focused on keeping the pet professions of the Test Krewe happy as they blow though the game as they prefer to. The changes further increase synergy of professions that already have amazing synergy and high damage. You'll won't need a paragon when you have warriors, dervish, and assassins running SY.

This update ignores professions. While it's nice that there is a continuing effort to help beast mastery, what happened to the professions that needed changes the most? The update preview went straight at professions that most players agree are useful.

To me, a damage warrior is still a tank, as they have high armor and most damage isn't really armor ignoring. Waiting around for a perma to finish a dungeon is boring and so is waiting for them to ball up enemies to nuke.

Elementalist shouldn't have too much armor ignoring damage unless it's in air perhaps. Making all or most ele nukes like air would make air less special. Fire can still damage with the help of Assassin's Promise/Gylph of Sacrifice and hitting the big red Meteor Shower nuke button over and over is nice.

Mesmer is my main and there are some fair builds, however they are unused by the great majority of mesmer players I've played with. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and those players should have the ability to contribute. I'm aware mesmers are useful in PvP and I do jump into such play now and then, but being good in one area while blowing chunks everywhere else isn't right and isn't an excuse to not have balance.

I for one still enjoy this game and I was hoping for some really meaningful changes to my often used builds. Please scrap the Test Krewe or weed out the ones who are only looking out for themselves. The new direction Guild Wars is going in is scary.

Del · Feb 20, 2010, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

i think that a class being designed for only one aspect of the game, with completely shitty the other one, is faulty in the very idea.
saying that mesmers were designed for pvp is true, but it's not a reason why they should suck in pve.

because you play a class designed for one aspect, and you play the other aspect, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class, it means there's something wrong with you. just because you don't like pvp, but want to play a class designed mainly for pvp doesn't mean it should be "fixed" just to suit you.

Orry · Feb 20, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Mesmer is my main and there are some fair builds, however they are unused by the great majority of mesmer players I've played with. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and those players should have the ability to contribute. I'm aware mesmers are useful in PvP and I do jump into such play now and then, but being good in one area while blowing chunks everywhere else isn't right and isn't an excuse to not have balance.

The problem with the good mesmer builds is people can't copy/paste them PvX and 1-2-3 them since their use is situational. The best use of a mesmer is to fast-cast those over powered pve skills we hear so much about.

drkn · Feb 20, 2010, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

because you play a class designed for one aspect, and you play the other aspect, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class, it means there's something wrong with you. just because you don't like pvp, but want to play a class designed mainly for pvp doesn't mean it should be "fixed" just to suit you.

it would be fine if other classes were designed specifically for pvp or pve. but that's not the case. everything - but mesmers - is designed for Guild Wars, not pvp/pve side. i don't judge how well the design was with other classes, but mesmer is clearly pvp char which sucks in pve. that's not the game mechanics, but an exception. a failure.

e:

Quote:

The problem with the good mesmer builds is people can't copy/paste them PvX and 1-2-3 them since their use is situational.

the problem with good mesmer builds is that e-denial does nothing to mobs in pve.
the problem with good mesmer builds is that you have to be goddamn lucky to interrupt mobs in hard mode, not to mention bosses.
the problem with good mesmer builds is that they don't deal any direct damage but they punish mobs' actions - what's clearly a pvp design - and that those punishment hexes can easily be taken off or expire really fast on a boss.
the problem ...

builds being situational is not the biggest problem.

Quote:

The only use of a mesmer in the end-game is to fast-cast those over powered pve skills we hear so much about.

fixed for you.

aaaand just to clear things up. i defend mesmers and point out their inferiority in pve aspects of the game all the time not becuase i need a buff to my class cause i can't achieve something - got gwamm, done uw, killed mallyx. the point is that even as neglected class as a paragon or as buffed now as ritualist - who, as ANet says, had no place in end-game pve :rotfl: - is much more desired and playable in high-end than mesmers. that's just a fact - if you don't believe me, go and see.
i've even rerolled to a paragon to see what's the fuss about in their case. yes, they are crappy and they can run only one effective build, but it's goddamn effective and they're still much more desired in groups and playable than mesmers.

Del · Feb 20, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

The problem with the good mesmer builds is people can't copy/paste them PvX and 1-2-3 them since their use is situational. The best use of a mesmer is to fast-cast those over powered pve skills we hear so much about.

This.

if there's anything that requires more skill than rolling your face on your keyboard, leave it to someone to complain.

Cuilan · Feb 20, 2010, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

because you play a class designed for one aspect, and you play the other aspect, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class, it means there's something wrong with you. just because you don't like pvp, but want to play a class designed mainly for pvp doesn't mean it should be "fixed" just to suit you.

Basically the profession in question should be very limited to only one area. No, that doesn't make sense at all. It sounds more like you want the profession to suit how you want it to be like.

So mesmers aren't for button mashing and likely shouldn't be such, but they still greatly need some help in useful skill choices, recharge, and energy. Along the way they should make some sort of attempt to make them easier to at least get into as they learn how to use them. There's plenty of useless stuff to pick from.

Killed u man · Feb 20, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

This.

if there's anything that requires more skill than rolling your face on your keyboard, leave it to someone to complain.

True, but not for mesmer. You can't shut PvE HM monsters down, hence mesmers are useless

drkn · Feb 20, 2010, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

if there's anything that requires more skill than rolling your face on your keyboard, leave it to someone to complain.

Quote:

Profession: W/A

please finish all storylines with a mesmer, both h/h and with people, and try to get into an end-game group - even with guildies. if you don't end up running FC echo RoJ or another imba gimmick, come back and share with us.
as right now i have a feeling that you just read somewhere that mesmers are hard to play but they're playable, maybe even they're powerful and superior to other classes, as those little things they do can save a big battle. that's utter bullshit. it's a lie that came from manuscripts/wiki and is consecutively repeated by people who haven't played mesmers or seen them briefly, and moved back to their pve-valiable main.
just take a look here - it's one of the worst jokes ever.
it's time to wake up.

Quote:

This update is focused on keeping the pet professions of the Test Krewe happy as they blow though the game as they prefer to.

i'm not going to throw rocks at anyone here, but i wouldn't be surprised to see that most of the TK //or other 'meaning' persons of the GW world// play warriors and ritualists, some play necros.

Gonzo_Neo · Feb 20, 2010, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Good update but i had hopes of a buff to Motivation PVE and Dervish

flapjack · Feb 20, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

It's not exactly black & white as to what's acceptable and whats not. I'm guessing by Regina's comments on SF and 600, that builds that allow people to consistently clear areas with only a fraction of a full party is one example of whats not acceptable.

My bad, i guess i was being a little more than slightly sarcastic when I asked:

"But perhaps before we spend much time working on effective ways to clear elite areas someone could explain what is "acceptable"?

Is there a certain length of time you would like us to stay above and/or certain classes that must be included or the method would be deemed unacceptable?"

I've certainly logged plenty of time playing through the games with big armory dude up front kept alive with little prot/healy dude in back with degening/bombing caster dude in middle.......meh...... balanced, lovely.....yawn......

Or the equally fascinating armory/shadowy/protected dude up front gathering for spiky dude/dudes etc etc.

Ive had quite a lot of fun with some of the "over powered" skills that have caused such an uproar amongst many GURU readers. I will miss SF for the easy to find "pick-up-groups" and higher skilled FL teams formed to clear elite areas. On the other hand there is always something else fun or interesting to do/exploit in the game

Shayne Hawke · Feb 20, 2010, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Can you point me to this note on the wiki? I'm a little unclear on how anyone is posting with certainty what an unreleased skill is going to count as "use a skill."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Demonic Flesh is being changed to work best on characters that use skills frequently, such as physical attackers. It will steal health from other foes adjacent to your target whenever you use a skill that targets a foe. Its new costs will be 5 energy, with a 1 second cast time, and a 30 second recharge.

Quote:

2. If that is the case, it's a bug problem, not a balance problem. (Though the new Demonic Flesh sounds like it may be OP anyway...) Failed skills should not count as "used." Problem solved.

Remember the old build when Nightfall came out that used the Way of the Empty Palm + Exhausting Assault + Sand Shards combo, because Sand Shards dealt damage when ever you missed with any kind of attack? It's this one, if you don't remember. It's like that. The fix that was put in place was to change Sand Shards to only work on Scythe Attacks. There wasn't any kind of adjustment made to the "failure" mechanic.

A similar kind of avoidance is probably going to be put in place for this set of skills. Since Demonic Flesh is the main culprit here, it seems like it will be the one to get changed.

LazyLink · Feb 20, 2010, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Nerfs to SF,OB, 600: good, its about time

Buffs to Hammer PvE: good, they suck right now.

Ritualist PvE buffs: don't care

Tactics buffs: interesting, adrenaline gain could fuel Warrior who use adrenaline (Bonetti's Defense) to farm.

Blood Magic buffs: Good, maybe blood will finally be worth something in 4v4

Other Stuff:

Primal Rage nerf: unneeded, it wasn't THAT good.

Shattering assault nerf: Unneeded, it was fine

Resilient Weapon nerf: unneeded.

Crippling shot change: ummm, why?

Ugh · Feb 20, 2010, 11:28 PM // 23:28

They should make Demonic Flesh only trigger when you successfully use a skill against a foe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LazyLink

Primal Rage nerf: unneeded, it wasn't THAT good.

It kinda was.

Quote:

Shattering assault nerf: Unneeded, it was fine

No.

Quote:

Crippling shot change: ummm, why?

Because the buff made it less skillful to use by allowing a ranger to shoot an undodgable, unblockable arrow from longbow range. Now positioning will be important again.

The increased duration makes it more effective in RA and CM. I'm not sure why they added that, though. It could've just been to prevent people such as myself from raging about more ranger nerfs (but this nerf was appropriate, so I would'nt have complained if they didn't touch the duration).